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View Full Version : Irish Tenor Banjo - what have you got?



James Rankine
Apr-02-2016, 1:09pm
I'm guessing most folk who play Irish and related styles will be doing so on a tenor banjo. There is of course nothing to stop you playing Irish tunes on a 5 string, but certainly on this side of the atlantic GDAE tenor banjo predominates for this genre.
I've had my Capek 19 fret Brdy (not a typo - it's a region of the Czech republic) open back for about 6 months now and I love it. It has a whyte ladie tone ring which has more ring than my other banjos - a no tone ring Deering goodtime and a Chinese version of the Deering with a simple brass ring tone ring. They are all good banjos but very different. I used to have a resonator with a Gibson style mastertone tone ring but I couldn't tame the beast and let it go. So I'm aiming for a slightly more mellow tone at the moment than the arch top resonator which seems to predominate for this style (though I reserve the right to change my tastes). I particularly like John Carty's style and his Ome open back 12 inch head with a simple brass tone ring - but then again he could make any banjo sound good. I play every week in an Irish session. I'm usually the only banjo player, or maybe one other on occasion, and try to reign things in unless I'm leading a set.

Here's a video and pictures of the banjo, which I originally posted on the song a week social group over on the mandolin cafe (I've been a mandolin player for longer than the banjo but, like so many others, found it difficult to hear myself play in session).

What have you got?

Banjo Cafe
Apr-02-2016, 1:40pm
Very fine photos of all the Capek instruments, including his Irské banjo Brdy, on his website, which you can link through our builder database (http://www.banjocafe.net/cgi-bin/builders/search?search=capek).

paulbrett
Apr-02-2016, 4:53pm
I have a Barnes and Mullins Empress 17 fret, the walnut one. I'm a mandolin player who only made the move to banjo lately and the Barnes and Mullins was the nicest for the money I played. Still getting to grips with the stretches after about 25 years of mandolin.

Dave Hanson
Apr-03-2016, 2:25am
I play a 1914 short scale Vega Whyte Laydie, 102 years old this year and still plays perfectly and sounds amazing.

Dave H

derbex
Apr-04-2016, 9:52am
I have a short scale Vega, I think it's a Little Wonder, from about 1923. I'm fed up with the mandolin being drowned out in sessions so it might be going to the pub again :)

CarlRobin
Apr-04-2016, 12:57pm
I have an inexpensive "Recording King" 23" scale length. Thanks James Rankine for the video. It's a great tune, and I liked the black banjo head on your instrument.

BBarton
Apr-04-2016, 8:05pm
Great new site!!! I have an Epiphone Recording A and a short-scale Clareen Oyster -- both great tenor banjos. Like many, I also made the move from mandolin (but still play the mandolin).

Eric C.
Apr-06-2016, 10:33am
I have an inexpensive "Recording King" 23" scale length. Thanks James Rankine for the video. It's a great tune, and I liked the black banjo head on your instrument.

What string size do you use? I have a Recording King 19 fret tenor banjo. Looking for a good sounding GDAE tuning.

Brooklyn
Apr-06-2016, 12:05pm
Hello all,

I have a Goodtime two 17 fret ITB. It's a nice entry-level banjo. Playing mandolin, I still find it difficult to get the hang of the scale length. But as I play more it slowly gets better. I hope to find more TAB for GDAE Irish Tenor banjo.

Great to see a banjo cafe web site. Good luck to Charlie and all who keep it running.

James

CarlRobin
Apr-07-2016, 9:12am
What string size do you use? I have a Recording King 19 fret tenor banjo. Looking for a good sounding GDAE tuning.
Eric, your banjo must be same as mine. I got it from Elderly Instruments. The strings are from a set "Deering Irish tenor banjo strings" on the package of my spare set it says: 1) .012 2) .018w 3) .028w 4) .038w. These are apparently the sizes. Strings for the CGDA tuning won't give the right sound when tuned lower, I was told. On advice from a friend, before shipping it to me, I asked them to put the Irish strings on, and widen the nut slots a little so those strings would slide through without binding for easy tuning. I have only had the banjo for several months, so haven't changed strings yet. Shouldn't be too hard though.

BBarton
Apr-07-2016, 3:16pm
Carl, I use those gauges on my 19-fret, but for the 17-fret I use a .040w or even .042w for the low G string to counter the intonation issue you can get with a lighter string on the short scale. Check your intonation as you fret up the scale to about the 5th, and if it sounds a bit off, you could try the slightly heavier gauge. It works for me! You're correct, regular tenor strings for CGDA tuning will just be sloppy when tuned down to "Irish".

Irish
Apr-10-2016, 10:32am
I have two Ome banjos. Ome open back Wildflower and Ome Celtic. I also have a nice 17 fret Vega style X #9 from the 1920s.

Jill McAuley
Apr-14-2016, 7:04pm
I currently have a !920's Lange made Triple X short scale tenor - it looks like it's an open back but it actually has a close fitting resonator. I'm scheming to get me hands on a Clareen tenor though - I've always been fond of the Celt (http://www.banjo.ie/banjos/details/Celt_6) model Tom does as I played one he had in the shop every time I would drop in.

Martin Ohrt
Apr-15-2016, 10:04am
I use a Gold Tone IT250F, a 17 fret tenor. Sporting an archtop tone ring, it cuts through in most settings, but has still a nice deep sound.

BBarton
Apr-15-2016, 3:40pm
Martin -- I had one of those, and I think that model with the arch-top head is an excellent value for the price. I let mine go so I could take the plunge for my vintage Epiphone, but certainly enjoyed playing it while I had it.

Brian Shaw
Apr-21-2016, 9:11am
My main banjo is a mid 20s Vega Tubaphone with the large pot.

BBarton
Apr-23-2016, 8:40am
I currently have a !920's Lange made Triple X short scale tenor - it looks like it's an open back but it actually has a close fitting resonator. I'm scheming to get me hands on a Clareen tenor though - I've always been fond of the Celt (http://www.banjo.ie/banjos/details/Celt_6) model Tom does as I played one he had in the shop every time I would drop in.

Jill, Are you aware of the 19-fret Clareen Elite Gold for sale in the BH classified? I think it's in WI. Pretty classy banjo.

Jill McAuley
Apr-25-2016, 1:34pm
Oh I'm aware of it indeed! No funds at the moment though, still stashing the cash away so hopefully there may be a Clareen in the house come Christmas time!

MzLoretta
Apr-29-2016, 8:15pm
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I have a new Deering Goodtime Special Openback 17 fret tenor banjo. Boy howdy, it's sure different from the mandolin. I have teeny tiny hands and short fingers .... so I'm digit jumping over those frets. Learning how to position her after playing the ol' mandolin is a challenge ... but here I go!

I've become partial to the playing of Gerry O'Connor because he's an outstanding player with a rhythm I understand ... and he took some serious time, in a forum, to help me get my luther to use the proper string gauge for GDAE, even tho' he uses CGDA mostly. Before he helped me, the intonation was crap and I was very sad. I don't speak banjo ... yet.

Mooh
Apr-29-2016, 9:41pm
Gold Tone IT250, stock except for a set of Gotoh 510 mini machine heads as the originals were less than satisfactory. Open back, and a selection of Remo heads, frosted one right now but often a fibre head. Levy's strap.

Jill McAuley
Jun-02-2016, 8:36pm
Well I just added a '92 - '93 Deering Standard 19 fret tenor to the fold. There's a hand written date that lists '92 inside the resonator, but the serial number dates it to Feb '93. Should be here next week. I'm still planning on getting a Clareen, hopefully by the end of the year (I'm a firm believer in Christmas presents to yourself!), but I got a good deal on the Deering and since I've always played short scale tenors, barring the odd go on a 19 fret one in a music shop, this will be a good way to see if 19 frets is my cup of tea or not. That way when I drop money on a Clareen I can be certain about whether to get a 17 fret or a 19 fret one.

BBarton
Jun-03-2016, 8:20pm
Jill -- Good solid banjo! I think (and guessing I could be wrong!) that the Standard may have been the forerunner for the Sierra and Deluxe lines. Does it have mahogany neck and resonator? Was that the one listed on BHO classified fairly recently? When I jumped to 19 frets from 17 some years ago, it took awhile to get used to the stretch, but now I like it better. I still use my 17-fret when I'm feeling lazy, and it also fits into a small gig bag better with the resonator off, so its good for carrying around at festivals and such. Enjoy the Deering!

Jill McAuley
Jun-04-2016, 1:16pm
It is the one that was in the BHO classifieds - ad text says it was the forerunner to the Sierra model. They did look fairly similar to the eye until the Sierra got it's revamp with more ornate inlays. The current Sierras have a different tone ring design as well. The Standard I'm getting differs from the Sierra specs in that it is gloss finish to the Sierra's satin, and the ad lists it as having mahogany neck, with maple rim and resonator. I've tried finding archived specs for the Standard online without joy so might email the folks at Deering to see if they can help.

When I lived in Oakland and was not far from the now gone 5th String music shop I used to sit and play the few tenors they had. Usually consisting of a used 17 fret tenor or two, and they had a 19 fret Deering Vega Little Wonder on the wall for ever. Steep price (somewhere in the range of $2300) for me, nice sound though, I did find that the more I picked it up the easier it was to adapt to the bigger stretch of the 19 frets. When they went out of business I kinda wished I'd gone in and made an offer on it, but missed me chance. Counting the days til the Standard gets here (Tuesday), rescheduled a work meeting so I could sit in and wait for it!

Jill McAuley
Jun-04-2016, 1:31pm
Just found out the Standard would have been a mahogany banjo with a maple rim. Mine has an ebony fretboard, which would have been custom ordered, not sure if the gloss finish was standard for them at the time or if that would've been custom ordered as well.

BBarton
Jun-07-2016, 8:28am
Jill -- My Deluxe was mahogany neck and res as well, and in gloss finish; Sierra was the same thing only in satin finish. This was before they reissued them a couple of years ago with more bling on the neck and headstock. I didn't know about a change in the Sierra tone ring. So the Standard should be pretty comparable to these models. Happy picking!

James Rankine
Jun-07-2016, 1:31pm
I've always played short scale tenors, barring the odd go on a 19 fret one in a music shop, this will be a good way to see if 19 frets is my cup of tea or not. That way when I drop money on a Clareen I can be certain about whether to get a 17 fret or a 19 fret one.

My first two tenors were short scale. I could never decide if a 19 fret was for me - the odd hour here and there in a music shop couldn't decide it for me. Then a local music shop had a half price clearance deal on a solid chinese 19 fret so I took the plunge. It still took over a year for me to warm to it but by the time I had I was ready to drop a larger amount on the Capek. I'm now a committed 19 fretter. I think there are so many differences to take into account with tenors that it can take a while to decide what is right for you and it makes sense not to make a big financial plunge until you're sure.

Jill McAuley
Jun-07-2016, 10:11pm
Well the Deering arrived this afternoon and I haven't been able to put it down! Interestingly the transition from 17 fret to 19 fret hasn't been as noticeable as I anticipated. This is likely because my 17 fret Triple X has a slightly longer scale length than other short scale tenors I've owned, and as such I'm not finding the stretch to 19 too bad at all! It arrived with D'Addario's on it and the A is unwound so we'll have to do something about that - I ordered some Newtone strings from Eagle Music in the UK a few days ago so hopefully they'll get here soon!

zoukboy
Jun-09-2016, 10:12am
What have you got?

OME custom tenor banjo. It's has a 12" Juniper pot with a Silverspun tone ring, mahogany neck and resonator.

478

Jill McAuley
Jun-09-2016, 1:11pm
Lovely! Those OME tenors are gorgeous!

Blue82
Jun-20-2016, 6:56pm
I thought I would reply to the thread and introduce myself at the same time. Just over three weeks ago I purchased my first banjo: a Deering Dropkick Murphys Tenor. I've been a fan of the Dropkick Murphys for nearly 15 years and, thanks to the band, slowly developed a taste for all types of Celtic music. My interest in Celtic punk/rock/folk and even ITM led me to take up the mandolin. But, many of the bands to whom I listen make prominent use of banjos. Given the relative ease of going from a Mandolin to a GDAE tenor banjo, I decided to give that a try.

Apparently Deering has only made 10 of the Dropkick Murphy models (10 Deerings, probably a lot more Goodtimes). So, I'm excited to get a limited addition model that was produced for one of my favorite bands. It is fairly unique (for Deering) in having a grenadilla wood tone ring. It has a maple neck, rim, and resonator. I've found it to be a great player, though I don't have a lot to which to compare it.

My one challenge has been to figure out which pick to use. I'm currently working through a pile of about 10 choices. I use Primetones for my mandolin, but they made too much string noise on the banjo for my taste. I've just about settled on a v-pick, but having been changing my mind about every 2 days.

Jill McAuley
Jun-21-2016, 1:37am
My one challenge has been to figure out which pick to use. I'm currently working through a pile of about 10 choices. I use Primetones for my mandolin, but they made too much string noise on the banjo for my taste. I've just about settled on a v-pick, but having been changing my mind about every 2 days.

I would think V-Picks might be a bit too heavy for tenor banjo playing - my only experience with them was with mandolins and they were on the thick/rigid side. I use a Blue Chip Kenny Smith 40 for mandolin but that would be too heavy for my liking when it comes to playing triplets on the tenor banjo. Have you tried either the grey Dunlop .60mm or .72mm picks, or Clayton .50mm ones? I'm a fan of the Clayton's meself, but have used the Dunlops in the past as well.

Blue82
Jun-21-2016, 8:59am
I would think V-Picks might be a bit too heavy for tenor banjo playing - my only experience with them was with mandolins and they were on the thick/rigid side. I use a Blue Chip Kenny Smith 40 for mandolin but that would be too heavy for my liking when it comes to playing triplets on the tenor banjo. Have you tried either the grey Dunlop .60mm or .72mm picks, or Clayton .50mm ones? I'm a fan of the Clayton's meself, but have used the Dunlops in the past as well.

Dunlop .60 (both nylon and max-grip), .73 max-grip, and Clayton .63 Ravens are all in my pile that I've been testing. I can probably make any of them work, but I like the V-pick a little better. I am using the ultra-lite V-pick, which is .80, so it's not that thick. The Dunlops especially I have to hold very close to the tip. That might actually have some additional benefits, but I'd have to change my habit. I'm still experimenting though.

Jill McAuley
Jun-21-2016, 11:09am
Dunlop .60 (both nylon and max-grip), .73 max-grip, and Clayton .63 Ravens are all in my pile that I've been testing. I can probably make any of them work, but I like the V-pick a little better. I am using the ultra-lite V-pick, which is .80, so it's not that thick. The Dunlops especially I have to hold very close to the tip. That might actually have some additional benefits, but I'd have to change my habit. I'm still experimenting though.

Ah, didn't know that V-picks did one as light as .80mm, good to know!

BBarton
Jun-27-2016, 9:38am
Jill -- good to hear you're liking the Deering! I also lean toward the Newtone strings, They're not long lasting, but I do like their "warm" sound (and the wound A).

Jill McAuley
Jun-27-2016, 5:11pm
Yes, I'm loving the Newtone strings - bought several packs of them. This banjo will keep me more than happy until such time as I get me hands on a Clareen.

Bob Michel
Aug-25-2016, 4:11pm
I have a couple of nice old tenors, which I'm afraid I've been neglecting of late in favor of mandolin and some other instruments.

The one on the left is a 1925 Weymann; I figured out the model number once, but I've long since forgotten it. It has a pop-off resonator and 18 (!) frets to the body; 1925 (according to Fred Oster, from whom I bought it back in the '90s) was a transitional year for the design. With a clear plastic head it's a screamer, a perfect banjo for big, raucous sessions; but it still has a nice tone.

The one on the right is an Orpheum #1. These are notoriously hard to date, but I reckon it's very roughly the same age as the Weymann. I bought it on a trip to Nashville about five years ago. It's compact and plunky and enormous fun to play; it's far quieter, but still has plenty of volume for playing in groups.

I know the Orpheum is strung with a D'Addario "Irish Banjo" set (.012-.036); I'm thinking the Weymann may sport something a bit heavier, but I can't remember the gauges offhand. For picks I rarely use anything but the .60 Dunlop Ultex (in the 1.14 version, this is one of my two or three favorite mandolin picks as well). Both instruments could use a little work: the Weymann would profit from new tuners, and the Orpheum just needs a set-up. But they're both quite playable in their current condition, and I don't really covet another tenor, though I suppose I wouldn't turn down a pristine Vega Style M if one fell in my lap.

545

Bob Michel
Near Philly

BBarton
Sep-02-2016, 7:57am
Bob -- Those are nice looking banjos. Does your Weymann have the old Grover Champion friction tuners? My teenage student has a 1920 Weymann Keystone State 140 that had its original friction tuners, which we could barely turn. We replaced (actually, had done by a pro) with small-shaft ABM geared tuners, which were recommended as providing the least amount of modification to the existing holes, and they work well, although they're a bit short for the headstock thickness (we couldn't accommodate the washers provided). I'm guessing your newer and fancier model may have geared tuners, but if not, you might want to look into that, BUT they are more expensive than the usual crop of geared tuners (Grover, Gotoh, Stew-Mac, etc.).

Ryk
Sep-20-2016, 7:13pm
1927 B&D Silver Belle No 1. Love it! Got it last week and haven't done too much Irish on it yet.

Ryk

Bob Michel
Sep-22-2016, 11:46am
BBarton -- The Weymann (also a Keystone State model) has what I assume are its original 1:1 friction pegs. They're not too stiff, and they actually hold tuning pretty well, but a couple of them aren't seated properly, and are a bit temperamental. Thanks for the suggestion of the ABM geared tuners. It sounds like a modification well worth making, but just now there are several other projects ahead of it in the queue!

Bob Michel
Near Philly

BBarton
Nov-17-2016, 11:22am
Bob - My student (she's 13) loves her little Weymann model 140, but she'll probably grow out of it eventually. The ABM tuners work great, but they're not cheap -- we were lucky as my banjo repair go-to guy up here had a set he installed for half-price. I've been trying to find a pop-off resonator for it, so if you ever hear of one available, let me know!

Jim Garber
Feb-14-2017, 12:38pm
I have been playing mandolin, fiddle and 5-string banjo over the decades I have played music, but have been interested in playing fiddle tunes on the banjo. I do like Irish music and other Celtic styles but am more of a generalist. I have been playing old time tunes on the tenor even tuning in cross-tuning for the key of A.

Last year, I found a Gibson TB-Junior for the right price and got the thing together to play in GDAE tuning. The scale is pretty short, tho: 19 inches. The upper strings seem to play in tune but the lower ones not so much especially the low G. I like the shorter scale since that way I can still finger it like a mandolin.

A friend of mine has a nice vintage Vega Style M with a Tubaphone tone ring and a larger pot with a skin head. I know that is not the ideal for an "Irish" banjo but for what I want it sounds pretty good. The scale I believe is 21". So I set out to buy one and found a decent deal on eBay tho the banjo needs a lot of cleaning up. I am not sure that the skin head will clean up more than the photo shows.

The Gibson BTW has no tone ring and has lots of tubby plunk (my new nickname). The Gibson is probably about half the weight of the Vega — I can even play it standing up without a strap.

I have been listening to a few of the prominent ITM banjo players, notably Enda Scahill, Gerry O'Connor and Angela Carberry. Great stuff and those folks are true magical musicians.

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